It has been unopened for a month now, waiting for the opportune time to celebrate. Sr. CAN keep Jr. from standing in the pulpit. Velour, much as I love you & welcome your comments here can you let this go please? @Deb Thank you for the welcome. That feels like another put down and Im really uncomfortable with it. The Bible says that those who profess to be brothers in Christ and are drunkards need to be expelled from the church. I believe it. ALL LIES. I turned 13 about a month after the wreck and felt like a freak! Thank You. More importantly hes got to want it because he loves his family. Maybe the congregation in question would give the same love and grace to someone in a pew. Maybe thats how it is supposed to work? I dont think he knows what it is to love someone other than himself, and he doesnt do a good job of even that. of wine was effective in taking the edge of the pain so that I did not have to use any stronger pain medicines. your anger is showing, yes. Many in the SBC hold to substitutionary atonement but not PENAL substitutionary atonement. youll follow his example. In time, this changes for the better. I found that quote on this site: There are ways to handle problems that other denominations use that dont involve this evangelical shoot-from-the-hip kick them out response. Now that Ive been spending more time reading what they write, I am shocked that they have any platform at all. Best to ignore the barbs. We can be His hands & feet to a hurting soul, we can listen without telling, we can confess our faults to others so they understand they are not alone, we can give anonymously to people & not tithe to a church. Blessings to you both. And have a happy upcoming wedding anniversary. Velour wrote: I also know plenty of men and women who are clean and sober and have had transformed lives. Im not uncomfortable with Barbs rules. I grew up in a verbally abusive family, so I have been here before. Sproul, Sr., might want to get a more personal glimpse into the man to whom many have looked for spiritual guidance and wisdom. Wine for all (no grape juicewhat are you, some kind of wimp?) at communion. Abuse is a different issue. The innocent must be protected. I pray the Lord will heal you of all your wounds, sir. AA in particular is seriously overrated, and even the courts know it. It would be nice if you acknowledge that. She was born on May 29, 1932 in Holbrook, Arizona to Harry and Dorothy Downey. Drunk/ drug driving maims and kills. They also throw in the slander term. honestly, if people front-loaded their development with Christian formation, then I think a lot of that Church discipline stuff wouldnt be needed, Why? Many of us have been abused in our families of origin, which is bad enough. There is more to the story with these people. The court has set a trial date of June 6, 2017. There are many new ones and perhaps they are better at helping people. She can run her blog how she likes. People do not drink large amounts habitually and still live your best life now. The Bible teaches us what true fellowship of the believer looks like. I will not go to a church that has such Dark Ages practices. If you had to be stuck on a desert island with one of three guys, I think that was what Barbara was in part advocating for up thread. Ditto for medications, which may need to be changed to find the right one. @ Velour: Sproul Jr. didnt hurt himself, his kids, or anyone else when he was operating a vehicle in an intoxicated state. What that entails goes far beyond boundaries and often means marital separation, i.e. My friends parents were killed on impact, and my friend was severely injured. We have gone several rounds. We now approach these matters much more like a spiritual team and have developed richer relationships not dependent on being part of the organization. He took me home. Because I have had my nose rubbed in Sproul Jrs teaching for a couple of decades, I took my own understanding from what she said, quite the opposite of the one you seem to have taken. Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. I was right I needed to read that passage in I Corinthians 5 again. It didnt sober him up but its good for maintenance of the recovery. I cannot add to or take away from Gods Word. In all likelihood he became an alcoholic as a teenager. masks off! Sproul, Jr. has a new book coming out, published by Ichthus Publications (what were they thinking???). But they also need bona fide help from people who know how to deliver it and are trained in it. Because I actually get it. I am very glad that you turned your own pain into a hopeful message for others. I dont doubt any of the bad things that people claim that R.C. These need compassion. Am still not seeing how sitting about with other people will cure certain issues such as alcoholism. There are, perhaps, one or two differences between Type 1 diabetes and alcoholism. So, his alcoholism caught up with him. Hitting bottom helps. One that would intervene when a pastor went this rogue? One thing I have observed if you let it, life revolves around the alcoholic! Velour wrote: (but then, in certain christian circles, mocking for all sorts of things seems to be endemic, which is a possibly related problem). Perhaps she is basing it on much more than that. The problem with your narrative is weve seen it all before. The key part to what Deborah added was the addict has to want to be helped., Ill admit to being too lazy to scroll back up the page to read Barbs original comments, but I dont recall her asking for anyone to be publicly humiliated (?). I have already covered this in Point #2, that he is not qualified to serve. Our sin is as sinful as is his. RC Sproul passed on, aged 78 years, on 14th December 2017. And its important to try. So these people are not mean or manipulative as far as you know, but the last time you saw one their wives try to tell them they had too much on board, what was their reactionsweetness and lightthank you dear for reminding me? However, Lisa (Sproul?) My mother died several years back, causing me great emotional pain, but I didnt turn to alcohol (or other substances) to cope with that pain. Clearly. No sir (or maam), I did not create a false correlation. Sadly those poor folks he advised not to take their medicines were far more intelligent and realistic than Sproul Jr. Sproul, an influential Christian theologian from Sanford who spread his evangelical teachings to millions of followers around the world through books, tapes, radio broadcasts and podcasts,. Im not sure about that. He was a writer, known for Calvinist (2017), The Parables of Jesus (2012) and The Gospel: 2016 National Conference (2016). I do agree that we have different views here. . Im impressed to now discover that there are multiple Celebrate Recovery groups in the Ft. Wayne area: http://www.celebraterecoveryfortwayne.com/ I know the story, but need someone willing to come forward, even anonymously. People think they have far more impact than they do re: what they can control re: an addict, and they think they have far less control than they do re: what they themselves can do to reduce the impact of the addict. Haha. We all deserve love. I am an old-school Southern Baptist who feels Christians would do well just to leave alcohol alone (period). With as much as hes paying his attorney, and as competent as his attorney is, he could very well convince the court to drop the felony and convert it to a misdemeanor. We have really lucked out (in the old days I would have said been blessed) in the MHPs who are helping various members of our family. Just search his name and spiritual abuse, etc. He died on December 14, 2017 in Altamonte Springs, Florida, USA. © 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022 - The Wartburg Watch. As you and I discussed here yesterday, I am in agreement that Sproul Jr. should be terminated from his job because he is unfit. I received a thank you today from someone who has just such a struggle, is a Christian, and lurks here. Sproul, Jr. has a serious drinking problem; Within a year or two hell petition the court to expunge the misdemeanor. There is usually a reason when people have strong feelings of negativity, and this issue triggers emotional responses from many of us Sprouls problems and how each should be handled. Id say that was posted by a chatbot if it werent for the fact that there did seem to be some semantic link between the sentences. Good insights. The Bible says that those who profess to be brothers in Christ and are drunkards need to be expelled from the church. They guy went to another church in the same denomination and auditioned or whatever you call it for the head preacher job. Would it help your perspective any to know that RC Jr has unjustly excommunicated entire families, and were not just talking a few, including small children, for the alleged sins of their parents? Or we edit the comment by replacing the word codependent with some other word, and then publish the comment. Being around others in a church setting may help resolve a need for companionship, but Im not seeing how it would cure somebody of a condition that would likely need medical intervention or the attention or professionals. Even my best friend knew I could not speak of it. I have read it several times, actually. After a total of 35 years I got entirely out of clinical and went into what the licensure people call administrative which is a wastebasket term for non-clinical and did that for 15 years. 2 By no means! You said, When asked we can offer suggestions where they might find help. Some of it I dont think is fair, but there may be some merit in it. Praise God, that is truly His heart and should be ours. You may recall that he wrote a post about the Ashley Madison scandal, knowing he had an account, and later had to confess after he was outed. Its almost as if their sinful exploits give them more street cred, and justify their continued sin. I hope everyone has a very nice day. (I use red wine in cooking and I am glad to be out of an insufferable NeoCalvinist church that saw sin in everything, including spaghetti sauce.) However, I do appreciate your emphasis on treatment. Sr. CAN cut off the paychecks. That was maybe confusing. You appear to be equating church discipline with spiritual abuse. Blessings on you, under the words of Himself about blessed are the peacemakers. we went to seminars and learned a lot about drug and alcohol abuse. My wifes oldest son is alcoholic. (King relates this in the autobiographical first half of his nonfiction book On Writing. And some are Christus Victor and a few are governmental. (And the same goes for HUG where he contemptuously described me as righteous.) 1 Corinthians 5:11-13. @ Velour: Velour has been advocate for many hurting people here on this blog, offering prayer lists, & reminding people to give, if they can, to help those in need on TWW, also giving of her own resources. Doctor R C Sproul PhD BA BD, was the founder of Ligonier Ministries, a theologian, author, broadcaster, teacher, and Presbyterian pastor. That was the last time I saw him alive. It will help you recognize that the picture you paint about RC Jr is wishful thinking that doesnt line up with reality. I would tend to agree with her about this person, assuming that he has, as some have claimed, publicly and speaking from some position of religious prominence defended his actions. I had surgery Monday. A different opinion here, perhaps, or a different way of looking at this. I think they probably know what works and what doesnt. How do you realistically deal with the tragedies hes faced with those beliefs? A visitation will be held Thursday, March 11, 2023, from 10:00 am - 12:00 pm with the Celebration of Life to begin immediately following at 12:00 pm Sprowl. While its good that he is in therapy, where is his accountability with other recovering alcoholics? You have my prayers. Heres just one example of his cult-like practices. That is, if the words of sacred Scripture For God so loved the world hold any solid meaning for them. We have friends who still go to our former church who are blind and brainwashed. when H.A. 2. @ refugee: No one can make him do that. I have heard that alcoholism which begins as a reaction to another issue, can become itself an issue as large and consuming as the original one. Start owning up to what you do. Wonder what will happen to churches or SBC leaders if they are not willing to sign off on this resolution? During that time, I would have a half glass of wine each evening which dulled the discomfort. This often does not happen because money is not available. I am a broken, wounded woman, who happens to have different people in my life who cut, starve, purge, overeat, get drunk, medicate with R/X drugs, smoke pot, work themselves ragged, overspend, in hope to silence the agony of depression, intense anxiety, raging self-contempt, hopeless despair, excruciating shame, and (false) guilt. To simply kick them out, in my opinion, is wrong. Instead she said ha ha and discussed kicking him out of the church, complete with scripture verses to justify the deed. And some self-medicate. I see that, Velour. Julie Anne reminded me about the path RC-Jr took, after MY post previously. has been working up to his felonious status for a long time. Most drunk drivers know theyre drunk, and theyre worried about potential consequences, so they slow down. How is name-calling them and shaming them carrying the message to the person who still suffers?. write such a tribute about his wife and marriage? I know several individuals who consume large amounts of alcohol on a regular basis and seem to have normal lives and hold down great jobs or are self employed. Thank you. He mocks people who dont drink like he does. Im not so keen to hold the church up as a solution to anyone for any reason. Getting a DUI at St. Peter Presbyterian Church was no big deal and driving on a suspended license was also no big deal. Under what circumstances did you become aware of alcohol abuse in these people-that might be a tip off. Today, Stephen Nichols and Mrs. Vesta Sproul talk about the vision behind RBC 10 years after its founding. Sproul was driving under the influence. This does not give any of us an excuse to walk in disobedience to the Lord as he has.. Velour wrote: I learned fairly early in life to fear drunk driving. RC2 sponsors keggers for staff in which alcohol is served to CHILDREN!! My concern about Barbaras comment is that at no time did she mention in-patient medical treatment for R.C. Thats the importance of getting them into treatmentand then waiting, praying, and not enabling. He fell drunk on the floor in his home. He made need to be hospitalized and treated by those who are not overly impressed with the Sproul name. Plainly put so-called support programs are overrated. To summarize but also fill in some gaps: Yes, that daughter needs HELP!!! Im glad you are no longer around them and their hateful views. Without accountability, anything else is worthless. Even Sproul Jr says so. 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