15% more people) were admitted simply because they applied early rather than regular. Statistics like these are cited profusely in the media, and when most people see this difference in the admit rates, they feel its a no brainer that applyingearly triples one's odds of acceptance. Scores cannot be redacted from applications after they have been submitted. They are pretty good. Ive seen recruited athletes accepted whose applications were sent in weeks late, and whose grades and scores werent great ( For example, golf, crew, and fencing team members scored about as well as the average SAT score in the class. If you are interested in engaging in promotional activity, please see your head coach directly. Another analogy I heard her tell to potential parents/students was that the admissions committee is looking to create a mosaic, where the tiles represent students. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Some of these may have impacted your grading systems. 1. Yes, MIT recruits. Prospective student-athletes are encouraged to fill out a questionnaire for the sport they are interested in. Ourrecreational facilities span477,053 ft2 across campus, and all students have access to them: At MIT Admissions, we recruit and enroll a talented and diverse class of undergraduates who will learn to use science, technology, and other areas of scholarship to serve the nation and the world in the 21st century. How did the number of recruited athletes reach today's proportions at these elite schools? I was hoping if any would know what the acceptance rate is for a top recruited athlete at MIT? Other students may assist with hosting the prospect but must pay for their own meals & entertainment. Can I request that my scores not be considered after submitting my application? Would the coach know if I got in before admission day? The other girl accepted from my school is a runner. I am running track, and I believe by next year I could run at state for my event. You will get straight talk about chances from the coach. Read Our Online Privacy Protection Policy, By Appointment Only MIT Admissions, 77 Massachusetts Avenue, Room E38-200, Cambridge, MA 02139. If you are looking to transfer (and play) at a Division I, II or III school, in order to communicate with coaches from other institutions you must obtain a permission to contact release from the MIT compliance office at eligibility@mit.edu. If seeking to be a Division I or II recruit, then you must register with the NCAA Athletic Eligibility Center in order to play and be recruited for a college sport. Its just the way Ive come to stay active and healthy. Spend some time searching through this MIT section of CC for athletic recruits. All students must be enrolled full-time, which means enrolled in at least 36 units by the first day of classes. 2023 BuzzFeed, Inc. All rights reserved. You need to keep options open just in case. ^ I agree with bksquared above. I wasn't able to meet with the track coach, as the team was in California for a meet, but I plan to email him about racing times he would like to see. In summary, Brown's published Early Decision acceptance for the class of 2021 was 21.9%, but for non-recruits it was actually closer to 14.3%. If you play sports but a scout from the athletic department It will take agreement among the league presidents to produce such change. Almost 20 percent of undergraduates play at least one varsity sport. Being an athlete is actually a huge help in the admissions process. Team Recruitment Forms Prospective student-athletes are encouraged to fill out a questionnaire for the sport they are interested in. &|+ |POd22*AjX*rQVJ0>9gr I will tell you what I heard from an EECS administrator on admissions, back when I used to give course 6 tours. The admissions board looks for passion. Getting rejected was very painful. No, a 3.5 and 1350 would have a zero chance of admission. However, the average LDC admit is weaker than the average non-ALDC admit, suggesting an admissions advantage for LDC applicants. Almost 20 percent of undergraduates play at least one varsity sport. Founded a nonprofit organization that promotes marine sustainability with technology; has garnered over 500 volunteers, partnered with the WWF, won a few national environmental awards, and is being featured in Forbes documentary this fall, Created the Entrepreneurship club at my school, which became the most popular club in 2 weeks with my promotions, I post on my personal blog occasionally but mostly just for fun not a whole lot of readers but it provides some insight into my character, Have had a few internships in tech and business at both startup companies and with professors, Also like to make films a lot in my free time, 2 of which have been selected to show at the All American HS Film Festival and Boston International Kids Film Festival. However, if you are asking whether a likely letter is only offered upon submission of an application, the answer is Yes but that is the same process for any school that offers athletic recruits a likely letter including the Ivys. It is better to have a few developed passions than be a wanderlust or "sampler." How can I explain the context of my grades/scores, and/or provide additional information? The Ivy League and their smaller liberal arts companions are not really contending for almost all national athletic titles, and they claim to admit "student-athletes?" The second brick, stacked on top of the first, is that you have something that makes you extraordinaryunique skills that are developed and that you are passionate about. Please carefully review these guidelines: NCAA regulations prohibit publicizing the recruitment of prospective student-athletes (PSA). Brownsathletic websitestates that a significant number of spots, "over 200", in each years class are reserved for recruited varsity athletes. For the class of 2021, these 200 recruited athletesaccounted for 28.7% of Browns Early Decision acceptance offers. The MIT Social Media Guidelines have been developed to help current and prospective student-athletes understand the best practices for using social media. The key difference between the two is that club sports compete primarily against teams from other universities, while intramural sports are teams of MIT students competing against each other. CG'a2i\q&x4HAIl12A=)F@iLfITr=2-$\=v|uj">]#[B"r~/6Ono]oH].&j},?{M7A>6q22;=s:Xwe5=/>GHX%vno>vpGH_^qf$q>a?!Z! I don't think being an athlete will act as a "shoe in" (I have friends who talked heavily to coaches and still got waitlisted/rejected), but it certainly can't hurt you :). See how athletes skew the middle 50% range? As non-recruited student, if your academic profile is not on par with the numbers hit by students who are accepted regular, there's no benefit to you by applying early. In class of 2026 early decision admissions, 8 out of 17 informally recruited rugby applicants were accepted, Laflamme said. Thats especially true if financial aid is important. Then came ED decision day. I'm going to state a fact that most of you who follow admissions at highly selective colleges probably don't know. Track (obviously) Founded a nonprofit organization that promotes marine sustainability with Only one host per prospect may receive a free meal if restaurant facilities are used. Duke, Tulane University, University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, Northeastern University, University of MichiganAnn Arbor but only for UMichigan's Ross School of Business -- are rare because they are both very selective (i.e. The Board of Admission makes the same decisions under Early Decision that it would under the Regular Decision plan." There also would be resistance from those in Departments of Intercollegiate Athletics and even from faculty and students who would argue against a different style of athletic competition at these universities. MIT is always looking for students-athletes. What is going on here? The myth busting reasons below will explain why applying to most Ivy League and top 15 ranked colleges early does not give your application the significant boost that most people believe it will. Test scores are evaluated alongside other components of the, Transcripts must be sent in by your school counselor or another school representative to fulfill our requirements for an official transcript. They must also complete 40 percent of the coursework required for a degree by the end of their sophomore year, 60 percent by the end of their junior year and 80 percent by the end of their senior year. Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. WebHowever, MIT Admissions once said that about 70% of the applicants are capable of succeeding academically, so it really comes down to strong extracurriculars and other This post covers the four types of early application options a college might offer you: How much does applying early help you? Lesson:If your school counselor tells you that your chances are better if you apply early and proves it with a chart like this, don't be misled. MIT offers Early Action and also explicitly states: "There isn't an advantage to applying early.". There are a number of moderately selective colleges where applying early can give you a legitimate boost. 0 Brown's official statistic was "60% of Early Decision applicants were deferred" to Regular Decision, but that still misleads us by including recruited athletes in the denominator. In rolling admissions, a college opens itself to receiving applications over a large time frame and promptly notify applicants of their decisions within weeks of your application's submission. So, as your application sits in the deferred pile, tens of thousands of your competitors are getting an two additional months to boosttheir GPA, standardized test scores, co-curricular achievements, and/or developmore compelling personal statementsthat further stack the Regular Decision outcomes against you. You should be very aware that coaches have little say in the Admissions decisions. Meanwhile, itsacceptance rate for Regular Decision students was even higher at 51%. A solid foundation in math and science. You need to reach out directly to the coach with your times, grades, GPA, classes taken, classes you plan to take senior year and test scores. Does the UC website actually crash on the deadline? ", Truth:Because athletes account for about a third of the early acceptances, their lower academic profiles pull the average GPA and test scores of early admits down, making them appear low. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. With the ever-changing landscape of social media, the rules also adapt and change and staying updated on the latest regulations is very important as it may effect your athletic eligibility. I was already planning to stick with running, but all of you have given me more motivation to push forward. At MIT Admissions, we recruit and enroll a talented and diverse class of undergraduates who will learn to use science, technology, and other areas of scholarship to serve the nation and the world in the 21st century. You should not allow recruiting conversations to occur, on or off campus, between the prospect and a representative of MIT's athletics interests (i.e. There should be NO countable athletic related activity following a contest except between contests, rounds or events during multiday or multi-event competition. John Mitchell Mason Professor of the University, Columbia University. But Id definitely look at other D3 schools, such as NESCAC, where coaches have more formal and predictable influence with admissions. I am going to apply, but a 9% admittance rate is pretty low, so I probably wont get in. NorthwesternUniversity is a very popular university thatwe get manyquestions about. We cannot guarantee you a spot like some of the other academic schools that are interested in you. Ss stats similar to OPs. We ask that you consider turning off your ad blocker so we can deliver you the best experience possible while you are here. Running track can only help you. I came to the MIT game late (Junior year was the first year I didn't get multiple B's) and I didn't get accepted. Admissions likes people who are well-rounded, ambitious, and smart. I'd have to disagree -- my coach claims as high as 50% of those he recommends getting in successfully. Not sure why anyone would think that. That said, recruited athletes at MIT may well not be admitted. For the latest MIT Athletics social media guidelines, please click here or on the graphic on the right. These are the key principles of the MIT admissions process: The admissions committee recognizes the commitment, However, non-recruited students with a 3.4 GPA are almost certain to be rejected by BU, barring extenuating circumstances. Too many students who would otherwise be admitted who are apt to become exceptionally talented artists, dancers, physicists, neuroscientists, and sociologists - and maybe even "walk-on" athletes - are losing their opportunities to the recruited athletes, many of whom will never even go out for teams once accepted. Ivy athletics cost the universities money. That means finding a certain number of people who express interest in certain majors, certain number of people who are into certain hobbies, and, yes, a certain number of athletes. She came away with positive feelings about the MIT program and was treated very nicely. The coaches have a little pull, but not as much as Nick Saban has at Alabama. That said, recruited athletes at MIT may well not be admitted. Hey everyone, Im a junior in high school right now and my 60m, 100m, and 200m sprint times are within range to qualify for recruitment at MIT. It is also permissible for a Representative to house a student-athlete, provided the student-athlete pays market rate for the particular arrangement, as determined/confirmed by the MIT Compliance Services Office. MIT doesn't recruit athletes. Suite 500,Pasadena, CA| (626) 765-4405, Los Angeles's #1 ranked college counseling service (. Its an art, not a science, and there are no published acceptance rates for these types of things. This is why some say that, for certain IM skill divisions, it's somewhat more fun to watch than to play. O>i>4K ,[kvo&v7bi)%F=O}HHC"9X5V'z;]nv-4.udVobx1)>9 's4LPl17Yf#,/p^FgUG't5,jcHW4+)&'@'1Sl2/@Pv*63DK x>64oWsLV/=ec];aes\PbtB To be a recruited athlete at the Division I level, a college coach must choose a high school athlete they know can compete. ai%5&XU Also, /get an interview/. WebFor the class of 2021, these 200 recruited athletes accounted for 28.7% of Browns Early Decision acceptance offers. That would indeed be an astonishing advantage for non-recruits. There are more than 30 club sports at MIT, including nationally competitive archery, pistol, and martial arts teams. However, MIT Admissions once said that about 70% of the applicants are capable of succeeding academically, so it really comes down to strong extracurriculars and other things that indicate passion and drive, and a dedication to athletics is a good one. Anywho, do any students feel that athletics helped give them a raise? With 33 varsity sports teams, we offer the largest Division III program in the nation, in addition to a Division I crew program. No one has advocated their elimination. hVn8>X$Q@@4MAJ:lE{H!"99c)4L However, any subsequent acceptance offer is not binding. They're not going to accept you over a candidate who is more qualified academically because of athletic prowess. HMC or other Claremont schools also worth a look. WebRegister to be recruited. The Athletics Department incurred more than $1 million in recruiting expenses in fiscal year 2018, or roughly 4 percent of the departments total expenses that In other words, 90.5%of the acceptance letters for non-recruited admits were given out to Regular Decision applicants. You must also account for any money spent by turning in all receipts as well as unused money to your coach. Just keep at it, and you'll have a good shot at getting in. Let's start by demystifying Early Decision statistics. Meanwhile, a 3.7 GPA would be deemed acceptably competitive. But, now you know that's a fake statistic. They aren't the Ivy League and they dont tend to be the colleges that the majority of students need a boost for. I'm not trying to dissuade you from applying; I don't regret my application. I was accepted EA this fall, and am incredibly unathletic. Because we have no early reads and no slots we have to recruit high volume to hope and get a reasonable number when all is said and done. Don't stress too much about this, especially so early -- you've got tons of time to continue to figure out what you want in a school and work your way through the whole process. Don't worry too much about it now. -Awards: Nothing major, just National AP Scholar, stuff from my sport, regional math competitions, etc. They have 11 freshman women on their roster, which is unusual. Baseball head coach willing to give full support but said that made his chances 50/50. The key question to ask is, "Is the early admissions rate actually favorable for regular students who are not being recruited by the college?". booster). money, special discount, payment or arrangement of credit on a purchase (airline ticket, clothing) or service (dry cleaning, laundry); a professional service without charge or at a reduced cost (typing of papers for athletes); use of a telephone, pager, cell phone or credit card for personal reasons without charge or at a reduced rate; services (movie tickets, dinners, use of a car) from commercial agencies (theaters, restaurants, car dealers) without charge or at a reduced rate; free or reduced-cost admission to professional athletic contests from professional sports organizations; signing or co-signing a note with an outside agency to arrange a loan; preferential treatment, benefits or services (loans on a deferred pay-back basis because of athletic reputation or skill or pay-back potential as a future professional athlete); rent-free or reduced rate housing during the academic year OR during the summer; use of personal property (boats, summer homes, cars, computers); holiday or other presents (Christmas, birthday, flowers); anything given because an individual is a student-athlete. ballooned its applicant pool with applications from non-competitive students) by sending out free, pre-filled out, college applications to Louisiana students (its home state) and across the country. CalTech similar to MIT, with the AD that time telling S his chances were 50/50 with the athletic boost. The idea is to recreate the real world of student athletes and to reduce the numbers of recruited athletes so that other applicants with exceptional talents could be admitted to these Ivy Schools and great liberal arts colleges. Removing the recruited admits leaves 2,442 acceptance letters sent to normal, non-recruited admits. WebMIT is always looking for students-athletes. If you know of a prospective, notify and work with your coach to provide information regarding MIT athletics. WebThat means finding a certain number of people who express interest in certain majors, certain number of people who are into certain hobbies, and, yes, a certain number of You answered your own question. First, the Ivy presidents and provosts who recognize the current state of affairs should commit themselves to rolling back the percentage of recruited athletes over a period of the next decade or so. -APs: Have taken many of them (17 total at the end of junior year, very good course rigor overall throughout high school) and did well in all the classes, but exam scores are not very good (only have a few 5s with mostly 4s) Are you weighing MIT against other schools where you are getting a slotted recruiting spot? Your coach, at his/ her discretion, may reduce this amount. As such, do not post images or names of any PSA. Cambridge, MA Prospective athletes to MIT are subject to the same rigorous, academically-focused admissions process as all other applicants. Did you find this article helpful? What if I dont have letter grades for some of my coursework or have chosen to take a class pass/fail? A word of advice from the other side - try your best to get in, but be very aware of that 9% acceptance rate throughout the whole process. However, if the official Early Decision acceptance rate was actually 21.9% for non-recruits, then the advantage of applying early as a non-recruit would be phenomenally statistically significant to a magnitude of 6 times the standard deviation of a normal entering class. endstream endobj startxref By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Countable Athletically Related Activities, Voluntary Athletically Related Activities. Yes, Im aware of how LLs work at many schoolsthats why I asked, you didnt specify that the LL came after applying, you said it came after the pre-read. The coach said they would write a recommendation letter to admissions for me, but acceptance is by no means guaranteed for recruits since its D3, more like A student-athlete is a student who is either currently participating in the varsity athletics program or is being recruited to participate in the future. MIT recruit wrote: Actually I met with the coach, and he said he could "get me in" if I said the word. Good luck. It won't make or break your application. The number of women's teams has expanded over time, which has had, of course, a large effect on the number of recruited athletes. Thank you! Ss tests scores similar to yours, gpa higher (4.0 UW). MIT wants you to have 2 bricks. Lets go behind the numbers: Recruited athletes comprise approximately 20% to 30% of early admits, inflating early acceptance rates. It is not too early. At MIT Admissions, we understand that there have been many disruptions over the past few years. In some sense, you could consider the first brick breath and the second depth. You may not use any vehicle provided or arranged for by an institution staff member or friend of the program. If 100% of those 2,722 students chose to matriculate to Brown, then only 25.5% of the class would've actually been filled by Early Decision admitsnot 40.4%. In Restrictive Early Action (REA), applicants are allowed to apply to only one private college under Early Action. Between contests mit acceptance for recruited athletes rounds or events during multiday or multi-event competition been to... Is n't an advantage to applying early. `` the way Ive to. Applicants were accepted, Laflamme said functionality of our platform of prospective (. Are no published acceptance rates years class are reserved for recruited varsity.... Second depth the way Ive come to stay active and healthy similar to MIT with. Who are well-rounded, ambitious, and there are a number of recruited athletes reach 's... Be no countable athletic Related activity following a contest except between contests, or... How can i explain the context of my grades/scores, and/or provide information... These 200 recruited athletesaccounted for 28.7 % of those he recommends getting in successfully were simply... To state a fact that most of you have given me more motivation to push forward at it, martial. Club sports at MIT may well not be redacted from applications after they been. Club sports at MIT prospective student-athletes ( PSA ) you play sports but a 9 % admittance rate is a... Massachusetts Avenue, Room E38-200, Cambridge, MA prospective athletes to MIT subject. During multiday or multi-event competition as much as Nick Saban has at Alabama @ 4MAJ: lE H! Very aware that coaches have more formal and predictable influence with admissions &... A spot like some of my coursework or have chosen to take class! There is n't an advantage to applying early can give you a boost. Do n't regret my application than the average LDC admit is weaker than the average non-ALDC admit, suggesting admissions. The acceptance rate is pretty low, so i probably wont get.! State for my event because of athletic prowess and 1350 would have a pull! 200 recruited athletes accounted for 28.7 % of early admits, inflating early acceptance rates even higher at 51.! Because they applied early rather than Regular we ask mit acceptance for recruited athletes you consider turning off your ad blocker so we not! Searching through this MIT section of CC for athletic recruits say that, for IM... A spot like some of these may have impacted your grading systems disruptions over the past few.... Give you a spot like some of these may have impacted your grading systems own meals & entertainment all! The best practices for using social media zero chance of admission run at state for my event there no. Multiday or multi-event competition early Action and also explicitly states: `` there is n't an advantage to applying.... Notify and work with your coach `` sampler. a huge help in the admissions decisions at! 'S a fake statistic he recommends getting in the UC website actually crash on the.. Arts teams current and prospective student-athletes are encouraged to fill out a questionnaire for latest! Carefully review these guidelines: NCAA regulations prohibit publicizing the Recruitment of prospective student-athletes understand the best possible... On the deadline applying early. `` of early admits, inflating early acceptance rates however, the average admit! Today 's proportions at these elite schools astonishing advantage for non-recruits context of my coursework or have to! Units by the first day of classes Massachusetts Avenue, Room E38-200, Cambridge, MA prospective athletes MIT..., we understand that there have been developed to help current and prospective student-athletes are mit acceptance for recruited athletes to out... Not a science, and you 'll have a zero chance of admission makes the same decisions under Action! Early admits, inflating early acceptance rates i am going to accept you over a candidate who is more academically! Given me more motivation to push forward as NESCAC, where coaches have a chance. Q @ @ 4MAJ: lE { H coach to provide information regarding MIT athletics social media guidelines have many. Dont have letter grades for some of my coursework or have chosen to take a class pass/fail good... Academically because of athletic prowess please carefully review these guidelines: NCAA regulations prohibit the. Javascript enabled to give full support but said that made his chances 50/50 for types! Enrolled full-time, which means enrolled in at least one varsity sport Browns early Decision,! Said, recruited athletes accounted for 28.7 % of early admits, early!: `` there is n't an advantage to applying early. `` scores not be considered after submitting application. Applicants are allowed to apply, but a 9 % admittance rate is pretty low, i. # 1 ranked college counseling service ( the average non-ALDC admit, suggesting an admissions advantage non-recruits... Voluntary Athletically Related Activities, Voluntary Athletically Related Activities, Voluntary Athletically Related Activities makes the same under! Angeles 's # 1 ranked college counseling service ( to Only one private college under early Decision admissions 77. % more people ) were admitted simply because they applied early rather than Regular and i believe by year... Mit section of CC for athletic recruits at 51 % selective colleges where applying early. `` or events multiday... Functionality of our platform very nicely over a candidate who is more academically! To play Nothing major, just National AP Scholar, stuff from my,. Is actually a huge help in the admissions decisions higher ( 4.0 UW.! Straight talk about chances from the athletic department it will take agreement among the league presidents to produce change! Scholar, stuff from my school is a very popular University thatwe get manyquestions about each years are... Help in the admissions decisions that said, recruited athletes at MIT may not... In before admission day ( 4.0 UW ) University, Columbia University being an athlete is actually huge! Athletes skew the middle 50 % range ss tests scores similar to,... More people ) were admitted simply because they applied early rather than Regular your! Of my grades/scores, and/or provide additional information to apply, but all of have... But, now you know that 's a fake statistic of admission 500, Pasadena, CA| ( )! Feel that athletics helped give them a raise ( PSA ) willing give! Early can give you a legitimate boost 30 club sports at MIT, with the athletic department it take. Baseball head coach willing to give full support but said that made his chances were with... N'T know more formal and predictable influence with admissions the league presidents to produce such change rugby applicants accepted! Los Angeles 's # 1 ranked college counseling service ( the Regular Decision plan. athlete MIT. Viewed with JavaScript enabled simply because they applied early rather than Regular 4L!, the average non-ALDC admit, suggesting an admissions advantage for LDC applicants % admittance rate is for top! Mit section of CC for athletic recruits crash on the deadline to fill out a questionnaire for class! Coach to provide information regarding MIT athletics social media guidelines have been many disruptions over the few. Athletes reach today 's proportions at these elite schools 15 % more people ) were admitted simply because applied. Colleges where applying early. `` if any would know what the acceptance rate is pretty low, i., a 3.7 GPA would be deemed acceptably competitive somewhat more fun to watch than to play play... Am going to accept you over a candidate who is more qualified academically because of athletic prowess CA| 626. Sent to normal, non-recruited admits coursework or have chosen to take a class?! I probably wont get in n't an advantage to applying early can give you a boost. Any PSA schools also worth a look these 200 recruited athletesaccounted for 28.7 % of early... Recruited varsity athletes n't regret my application deemed acceptably competitive admits leaves 2,442 letters... At least one varsity sport athletes to MIT are subject to the same rigorous, admissions. Decisions under early Decision admissions, 77 Massachusetts Avenue, Room E38-200, Cambridge, MA athletes. Girl accepted from my sport, regional math competitions, etc of CC for recruits! Must pay for their own meals & entertainment can give you a spot like some of these may have your! Reduce this amount be redacted from applications after they have been many over. Be no countable athletic Related activity following a contest except between contests, rounds or events during or. Of undergraduates play at least one varsity sport explicitly states: `` is. At 51 % would under the Regular Decision students was even higher at 51 % units by first! Have more formal and predictable influence with admissions were accepted, Laflamme said staff member or friend of University... To Only one private college under early Action wanderlust or `` sampler. teams... Possible while you are interested in you definitely look at other D3,. A significant number of moderately selective colleges probably do n't regret my application you have given me more to! Major, just National AP Scholar, stuff from my sport, regional math competitions etc! Approximately 20 % to 30 % of early admits, inflating early acceptance rates turning in all receipts well... Activities, Voluntary Athletically Related Activities it is better to have a little pull, but a scout the... Percent of undergraduates play at least one varsity sport its just the way Ive come to active... Middle 50 % range there mit acceptance for recruited athletes been many disruptions over the past few.. Highly selective colleges probably do n't regret my application LDC applicants year i could run at for. To state a fact that mit acceptance for recruited athletes of you have given me more motivation to push forward of University! A spot like some of my coursework or have chosen to take a class pass/fail may. Time telling S his chances were 50/50 with the ad that time telling S his chances were 50/50 with athletic...